00:00:02:05 - 00:00:03:05 Part 3 is on 00:00:03:05 - 00:00:07:01 recognizing spiritual needs, in an intersectional lens, with a disability 00:00:07:01 - 00:00:09:22 justice starting point. 00:00:11:13 - 00:00:12:29 Part 3 of this presentation, 00:00:12:29 - 00:00:16:27 with its selected illustrations, does include mention of 00:00:18:00 - 00:00:20:14 child loss, violence, 00:00:20:14 - 00:00:22:19 racial trauma and disability trauma. 00:00:22:28 - 00:00:26:29 And I am mindful that folks who have experienced 00:00:27:11 - 00:00:30:26 these or similar causes of spiritual pain may be affected differently 00:00:30:26 - 00:00:34:01 than those who do not have this experience. 00:00:34:24 - 00:00:36:19 Please take care of your heart, 00:00:36:23 - 00:00:39:13 and if you need distance, please do 00:00:39:13 - 00:00:41:16 take that distance, and then come back. 00:00:42:18 - 00:00:46:14 My hope is that in naming trauma and oppression 00:00:46:19 - 00:00:51:10 as a cause of spiritual distress and pain that chaplains routinely encounter, 00:00:52:12 - 00:00:56:03 that all chaplains may find themselves inspired, if not compelled 00:00:56:20 - 00:01:00:04 to work towards disability justice, universal access, 00:01:00:12 - 00:01:04:11 and solidarity with the most marginalized in their provision of spiritual care. 00:01:05:22 - 00:01:07:08 May we somehow 00:01:07:08 - 00:01:09:21 find comfort in such a hopeful tomorrow. 00:01:13:27 - 00:01:15:27 Categorically looking at causes 00:01:15:27 - 00:01:19:19 of spiritual suffering, 00:01:20:09 - 00:01:23:20 one category is "Generally Expected Stressors." 00:01:23:28 - 00:01:26:29 We know how to "chaplain" - I'm just making that a verb - 00:01:26:29 - 00:01:31:04 when folks present with things like a return of cancer, 00:01:31:11 - 00:01:34:10 death of a grandparent, routine, life transitions, or other 00:01:35:16 - 00:01:38:23 chaplain-y things that can cause spiritual distress and pain. 00:01:39:28 - 00:01:42:15 We listen, validate, find out more, 00:01:42:23 - 00:01:47:01 respect the patient's own meaning making systems or faith traditions 00:01:48:01 - 00:01:50:19 and figure out how we can help them to best connect 00:01:50:19 - 00:01:53:21 with some of those resources in order to cope with their crisis, change 00:01:53:27 - 00:01:55:01 or loss. 00:01:58:00 - 00:01:59:21 Another category 00:01:59:21 - 00:02:02:06 of causes of spiritual suffering is 00:02:02:21 - 00:02:05:26 "Critical Incidents or Violence" 00:02:05:26 - 00:02:08:25 and these causes of suffering are somewhat less common. 00:02:09:05 - 00:02:10:28 Things like a mass shooting event, 00:02:12:21 - 00:02:14:27 sexual assault, the traumatic death of a child, 00:02:15:23 - 00:02:18:18 a death by suicide, 00:02:18:22 - 00:02:21:10 or something deemed to be out of our control 00:02:21:10 - 00:02:25:03 altogether, such as natural disasters and having a loved 00:02:25:03 - 00:02:28:05 one who died in a tornado, for example. 00:02:29:11 - 00:02:30:08 What do we do? 00:02:30:08 - 00:02:32:26 Well, the same chaplain tools as in the first category 00:02:34:13 - 00:02:36:13 generally do still work. 00:02:36:13 - 00:02:38:27 We listen, validate, find out more, respect 00:02:38:27 - 00:02:41:17 the person's own meaning making systems or faith traditions, 00:02:42:00 - 00:02:45:06 and figure out how we can help them best connect with some of those resources. 00:02:46:11 - 00:02:48:28 Additionally, since we tend to call these things trauma, 00:02:49:09 - 00:02:52:28 we might make sure there's a referral to mental health support if needed. 00:02:52:28 - 00:02:56:00 And for providers we even have whole teams 00:02:56:00 - 00:03:00:06 that try to support them through coping with these causes of suffering. 00:03:01:11 - 00:03:03:04 And the spiritual care 00:03:03:04 - 00:03:06:08 for folks in this category is within the realm of what we do as chaplains, 00:03:07:00 - 00:03:09:28 sometimes also just affirming that in their response 00:03:09:28 - 00:03:12:11 to trauma, whatever their response may be, 00:03:13:12 - 00:03:15:29 they are having a normal response 00:03:16:11 - 00:03:19:24 to an abnormal situation, as CISM puts it. 00:03:21:09 - 00:03:23:10 There are more categories of spiritual suffering. 00:03:23:10 - 00:03:25:29 This is not an exhaustive or perfect 00:03:27:04 - 00:03:29:29 layout here, but for time I need to get into the tough one: 00:03:30:18 - 00:03:33:06 When the cause of spiritual suffering is "Oppression" 00:03:33:25 - 00:03:36:08 which is always intersectional. 00:03:37:16 - 00:03:40:16 This spiritual pain is categorically different. 00:03:42:16 - 00:03:44:21 Oppression in general is prolonged, 00:03:44:21 - 00:03:47:19 cruel or unusual treatment. 00:03:47:29 - 00:03:50:09 It's like the tornado didn't pass through town. 00:03:51:01 - 00:03:54:02 In this case, the tornado scooped some people up 00:03:54:24 - 00:03:56:27 and they are still up in the air in that tornado, 00:03:57:24 - 00:04:00:11 where they will just stay until they die. 00:04:01:13 - 00:04:01:24 It's like 00:04:01:24 - 00:04:04:09 a mass shooting that never ends, 00:04:04:28 - 00:04:07:08 and folks are just hiding under the table forever 00:04:07:17 - 00:04:10:16 because their lives are at risk. 00:04:12:06 - 00:04:14:03 But the added cause of pain here 00:04:14:03 - 00:04:17:18 is that not everybody knows or even cares 00:04:18:00 - 00:04:22:05 that you're up in the air in a tornado or under a table trying not to die. 00:04:23:27 - 00:04:26:17 Oppression as a cause of spiritual 00:04:26:17 - 00:04:28:16 pain is different. 00:04:29:26 - 00:04:32:05 Ableism is oppression 00:04:32:05 - 00:04:36:08 that privileges the protection and care of certain bodyminds 00:04:36:16 - 00:04:38:29 while excluding and deprioritizing 00:04:39:21 - 00:04:41:27 other bodyminds. 00:04:42:13 - 00:04:47:02 A disability justice perspective reminds us that multiply marginalized 00:04:47:02 - 00:04:50:26 people are the most oppressed and the most in need of access, 00:04:51:03 - 00:04:54:03 solidarity, and care. 00:04:55:18 - 00:04:56:21 What does the chaplain do 00:04:56:21 - 00:05:00:19 when spiritual pain comes from oppression? 00:05:01:23 - 00:05:03:23 We have our spiritual assessment frameworks, 00:05:03:23 - 00:05:07:00 which I'm going to call "Tools" now for brevity. 00:05:07:25 - 00:05:11:10 These all have a common lineage with psychological assessments 00:05:11:10 - 00:05:13:02 and a clinical framing of problems. 00:05:14:14 - 00:05:15:29 They're all based on 00:05:15:29 - 00:05:21:00 some assumptions, like individual autonomy, and empowerment, 00:05:21:17 - 00:05:24:02 that do not apply 00:05:24:18 - 00:05:27:15 when the person in need of spiritual care is multiply marginalized, 00:05:27:27 - 00:05:30:13 and at least one cause of their spiritual suffering 00:05:30:26 - 00:05:33:02 is oppression. 00:05:36:11 - 00:05:38:10 Do the tools work? 00:05:40:13 - 00:05:42:21 When you go into Maternity in a hospital, 00:05:43:29 - 00:05:46:01 and a Black mom's physical pain 00:05:46:01 - 00:05:48:04 is not being adequately managed, 00:05:49:01 - 00:05:53:02 because we know that providers tend to overestimate Black patients' 00:05:53:02 - 00:05:57:16 pain tolerance and therefore under-manage their pain, that's 00:05:57:16 - 00:06:00:01 ableism and racism. 00:06:01:24 - 00:06:05:22 Nothing indicates that she needs help finding meaning or purpose, 00:06:05:22 - 00:06:06:21 calling her pastor, 00:06:06:21 - 00:06:10:13 connecting with her faith community, or coming up with a ritual about pain... 00:06:10:19 - 00:06:14:18 She needs access to the medical care she's not receiving right now. 00:06:15:08 - 00:06:18:11 Our regular chaplain tools are designed 00:06:18:11 - 00:06:22:03 to identify individual level causes of spiritual pain, 00:06:23:04 - 00:06:23:20 and to search 00:06:23:20 - 00:06:27:27 out strengths and deficiencies in individual level spiritual resources, 00:06:28:17 - 00:06:32:22 all of which presume autonomy and empowerment in the context. 00:06:34:17 - 00:06:37:13 These tools do not work when you're visiting a woman in stage 00:06:37:13 - 00:06:41:27 two of labor, who's also kind of mad, yet terrified 00:06:42:06 - 00:06:45:00 at the same time, mad and terrified to the point 00:06:45:00 - 00:06:48:13 that you go check her EMR to make sure she might not be rational or something. 00:06:48:26 - 00:06:50:09 Why is she mad? 00:06:51:10 - 00:06:53:26 Is it because her provider isn't managing her pain, 00:06:54:14 - 00:06:56:17 or is it something else? 00:06:57:12 - 00:06:59:12 Why is she terrified? 00:06:59:12 - 00:07:01:20 What if you as the chaplain didn't know 00:07:02:13 - 00:07:07:12 that Black moms are three to five times more likely to die 00:07:08:09 - 00:07:10:25 during pregnancy and delivery 00:07:10:25 - 00:07:15:11 than their White peers, and that's even when controlling 00:07:15:11 - 00:07:18:14 for income, health insurance, and education. 00:07:22:15 - 00:07:25:29 What if the causes of her spiritual suffering are categorically oppression? 00:07:26:11 - 00:07:28:10 These things are structural. 00:07:28:10 - 00:07:30:01 That's ableism and racism. 00:07:30:01 - 00:07:33:15 How can you support her spiritual well-being when you are a part 00:07:33:15 - 00:07:37:13 of the oppressive structures literally threatening her life today? 00:07:38:28 - 00:07:40:19 Can you assess her spiritual needs 00:07:40:19 - 00:07:44:14 using your existing assessments? 00:07:44:18 - 00:07:47:04 I suspect that some of you want to say yes, 00:07:48:02 - 00:07:51:00 but really, I just want to encourage you 00:07:51:00 - 00:07:55:09 to give some thought to whether your assessments are valid 00:07:55:20 - 00:07:59:08 when the cause of spiritual pain is oppression, and 00:08:00:16 - 00:08:03:20 the person is not lacking any known 00:08:03:20 - 00:08:06:29 spiritual resources. 00:08:07:02 - 00:08:09:12 They've got all that covered; it's the oppression. 00:08:10:29 - 00:08:13:06 I suggest that what this mom needs for her 00:08:13:06 - 00:08:16:15 spiritual well-being is justice, 00:08:16:15 - 00:08:19:09 and anything less is just window dressing 00:08:20:05 - 00:08:23:15 in front of the biggest elephant that can possibly fit in a room. 00:08:27:09 - 00:08:28:01 I'm intentionally 00:08:28:01 - 00:08:31:11 not going through specific methods because I didn't want this 00:08:31:11 - 00:08:34:17 to become a tear down of any particular assessment framework. 00:08:34:17 - 00:08:36:14 But I have done it on my own, and I encourage you 00:08:36:14 - 00:08:39:24 to look at your favorite one, your tool, with new eyes, 00:08:40:12 - 00:08:43:22 for when the cause of someone's spiritual pain is oppression, 00:08:43:29 - 00:08:46:02 and the assumptions of the tools don't apply 00:08:47:06 - 00:08:51:20 and they're not missing any of those spiritual resources 00:08:51:20 - 00:08:54:29 that are usually what we address in spiritual care. 00:08:56:14 - 00:08:59:11 I'm not the boss of the world, like I needed to tell you that. 00:09:00:01 - 00:09:02:19 You can continue doing whatever you believe is best. 00:09:03:25 - 00:09:06:11 I only ask that you give 00:09:06:11 - 00:09:09:17 this your sincere attention. 00:09:09:17 - 00:09:12:14 If someone's multiply marginalized, what they need is to have 00:09:12:14 - 00:09:13:19 their access needs met. 00:09:15:07 - 00:09:16:25 How does that happen? 00:09:16:25 - 00:09:19:07 Through interdependence, collective access, and the other 00:09:19:07 - 00:09:22:16 principles of disability justice. 00:09:22:19 - 00:09:24:29 And to hear that explained in another voice, 00:09:24:29 - 00:09:27:16 please listen to the 2018 keynote 00:09:28:18 - 00:09:31:05 speech from Mia Mingus on "access is love". 00:09:31:13 - 00:09:33:19 I linked it on the website. 00:09:33:21 - 00:09:36:14 I'm really just substituting spiritual care in for love. 00:09:36:24 - 00:09:38:16 Spiritual care equals access 00:09:38:16 - 00:09:41:01 equals solidarity equals disability justice 00:09:42:02 - 00:09:44:03 This here 00:09:44:03 - 00:09:47:28 is the work of Alice Wong and the Disability Visibility Project 00:09:47:28 - 00:09:50:10 building off of Mia Mingus's "access is love" speech. 00:09:51:03 - 00:09:55:28 The bottom line is we don't get to justice by using our existing chaplain tools, 00:09:56:13 - 00:09:59:16 but I think we need to get to justice if we're going to actually care for 00:09:59:24 - 00:10:01:21 people's spiritual health. 00:10:04:22 - 00:10:06:10 I'm going to wrap up this section 00:10:06:10 - 00:10:10:29 by sharing two brief personal stories, from a lifetime of them. 00:10:12:10 - 00:10:15:02 This is hard for me, 00:10:15:02 - 00:10:19:04 but I share because someone will inevitably tell me later today 00:10:20:03 - 00:10:22:19 that my sharing helped them find their voice. 00:10:24:08 - 00:10:25:28 That's why I do it. 00:10:25:28 - 00:10:29:29 And if you are abled, or non-disabled, you might be inspired 00:10:30:23 - 00:10:35:15 by something I share to use your privilege to do something for disability justice, 00:10:35:25 - 00:10:40:14 because you're not going to be ignored in ways that people like me are ignored. 00:10:41:14 - 00:10:44:08 Because of our intersectional identities, 00:10:44:08 - 00:10:47:24 we can all be marginalized in some settings and privileged in others. 00:10:47:24 - 00:10:49:17 And it's true for me as well. 00:10:49:17 - 00:10:52:03 As a non-binary, queer, disabled person, 00:10:52:23 - 00:10:56:22 I'm very familiar with being treated like I am less than human, 00:10:57:11 - 00:10:59:27 and with being completely ignored 00:10:59:27 - 00:11:03:24 when I try to get my access needs met. 00:11:04:08 - 00:11:05:03 So you might think that 00:11:06:02 - 00:11:08:20 if you were my chaplain, for example, 00:11:08:20 - 00:11:11:27 maybe it sounds like I'm struggling to remember my inherent worth 00:11:13:09 - 00:11:17:00 since I'm repeatedly experiencing being treated as less than human? 00:11:17:09 - 00:11:19:01 But I'm not. 00:11:19:08 - 00:11:22:14 I'm struggling to bear the weight of repeated affronts 00:11:22:14 - 00:11:26:09 to my humanity within systems where nobody seems to care. 00:11:26:25 - 00:11:28:26 And these are very common experiences. 00:11:29:15 - 00:11:32:04 I'm just telling my own stories because I really don't like telling other 00:11:32:04 - 00:11:34:10 people's stories. 00:11:36:04 - 00:11:37:09 Let's do this. Story #1. 00:11:37:09 - 00:11:39:12 This is from last month. 00:11:40:21 - 00:11:43:01 I am a disabled veteran. 00:11:43:09 - 00:11:45:22 I was attending a required C&P exam regarding 00:11:45:22 - 00:11:48:25 two of my injuries related to military service. 00:11:49:17 - 00:11:52:09 The provider who was doing the exam treated me in every way 00:11:53:02 - 00:11:55:09 as less than human. 00:11:55:09 - 00:11:58:06 Starting with how she snapped her fingers at me in the waiting room, 00:11:58:21 - 00:12:00:19 like how you might call in your dog from the yard. 00:12:02:21 - 00:12:04:26 When she was filling out her form, 00:12:04:26 - 00:12:07:14 she had to ask a bunch of questions, one of which was 00:12:08:20 - 00:12:10:24 about employment. 00:12:10:29 - 00:12:13:11 For some reason, she paraphrased that question. 00:12:13:11 - 00:12:16:12 So she asked it by saying,"Do 00:12:16:12 - 00:12:18:17 you do anything?" 00:12:19:21 - 00:12:21:26 which I didn't understand. 00:12:21:26 - 00:12:24:06 "Do you do anything?" What's that mean? 00:12:24:23 - 00:12:28:00 So I asked her, "What do you mean?" 00:12:28:19 - 00:12:30:16 And then she yelled at me. 00:12:31:12 - 00:12:34:24 And she spoke slowly, sounding it all out 00:12:36:01 - 00:12:38:04 as if I don't understand words. 00:12:38:24 - 00:12:44:13 When she said, I'm going to do it now: "Do-you-do an-y-thing?! 00:12:44:13 - 00:12:45:20 Do-you-have-a-jo-b?! 00:12:45:20 - 00:12:48:16 That's how she did it. 00:12:49:28 - 00:12:51:12 It feels gross. 00:12:54:04 - 00:12:57:05 And it felt gross to be talked to like that. 00:12:58:21 - 00:13:00:21 I said, I do. 00:13:01:07 - 00:13:02:23 I'm a professor 00:13:02:23 - 00:13:05:18 and a population health researcher. 00:13:05:18 - 00:13:07:16 She shook her head no, 00:13:07:26 - 00:13:09:03 as if I just made that up. 00:13:10:07 - 00:13:12:00 And she went on with her questions. 00:13:12:00 - 00:13:15:16 And she rapidly asked a whole bunch of questions about specific dates 00:13:15:16 - 00:13:18:11 and details about things that happened 30 years ago. 00:13:19:14 - 00:13:21:21 For this, I pulled out my typed out notes 00:13:21:21 - 00:13:24:21 because I knew that was a part of this exam. 00:13:24:21 - 00:13:27:11 So I had my notes ready to go. 00:13:28:27 - 00:13:32:19 And when I went to look at my notes, 00:13:34:10 - 00:13:36:15 she made fun of me 00:13:36:15 - 00:13:38:18 for having notes. 00:13:39:26 - 00:13:41:20 I happen to need the notes because 00:13:41:20 - 00:13:44:09 of one of my cognitive impairments. 00:13:45:10 - 00:13:48:18 I'm a genius with a broken brain, lucky me. 00:13:49:02 - 00:13:51:13 And having notes is an accommodation that works well. 00:13:53:10 - 00:13:56:26 But she teased me about having them... 00:13:58:00 - 00:14:00:02 There is a lot more, 00:14:00:02 - 00:14:02:20 but I'm going to stop because otherwise I will start crying. 00:14:04:27 - 00:14:07:22 It was a horrible experience and if you happen to be 00:14:07:22 - 00:14:11:00 in a position to take any kind of official report about this 00:14:12:15 - 00:14:15:01 VA C&P Exam and how I was treated, 00:14:15:05 - 00:14:18:27 if you can take that report into a space where someone will listen to you? 00:14:19:04 - 00:14:22:20 I would be grateful for a contact later and your support, 00:14:22:20 - 00:14:26:14 because despite my efforts, nobody seems to 00:14:26:14 - 00:14:27:00 care. 00:14:32:08 - 00:14:33:06 Story #2 00:14:33:06 - 00:14:35:23 One more story of ableism from the past few months. 00:14:37:04 - 00:14:38:26 There's so many stories I could choose from, 00:14:38:26 - 00:14:41:21 but you'll see why I had to include this one in the mix in a moment. 00:14:42:19 - 00:14:44:28 I started asking about 00:14:44:28 - 00:14:48:11 accessibility of this session 00:14:49:16 - 00:14:51:01 that we're in right now 00:14:51:12 - 00:14:54:28 three months ago, I asked about my own access needs, 00:14:56:10 - 00:14:58:16 and I asked where 00:14:58:20 - 00:15:01:00 I could find out about accessibility considerations 00:15:01:06 - 00:15:04:13 that would be available for attendees of my session 00:15:04:13 - 00:15:07:01 so that I could prepare an accessible presentation. 00:15:08:02 - 00:15:08:12 In my 00:15:08:12 - 00:15:12:13 emails, the ones in which I ask questions 00:15:12:13 - 00:15:15:24 about either my own accessibility or the accessibility of you all, 00:15:16:24 - 00:15:20:08 those emails were never even answered. 00:15:21:09 - 00:15:23:13 Here I am doing additional 00:15:24:22 - 00:15:27:03 uncompensated labor, 00:15:27:03 - 00:15:29:23 and I'm doing it because I believe this topic is important. 00:15:31:20 - 00:15:33:28 You know, I offered this session initially in order 00:15:33:28 - 00:15:38:05 to speak up for all the disabled chaplains who have been tokenized, 00:15:38:12 - 00:15:42:18 if not fired, and have had their stories co-opted by others 00:15:42:18 - 00:15:46:21 while they are silenced and their access needs go unmet. 00:15:47:03 - 00:15:50:27 For them, for my people, I tarried on in spite of being ignored, 00:15:51:06 - 00:15:54:28 and I figured out how to make this session relatively accessible for myself 00:15:55:03 - 00:15:58:19 and for you all despite the lack of accessibility in the system. 00:15:59:28 - 00:16:02:13 And to be clear, they responded to my emails 00:16:02:21 - 00:16:06:13 that did not ask about accommodations, both before 00:16:06:23 - 00:16:08:29 and after the ones that did. 00:16:09:16 - 00:16:12:03 They just ignored the emails with accessibility questions. 00:16:13:06 - 00:16:15:22 And it's not just a matter of someone ignoring emails. 00:16:16:09 - 00:16:18:03 It's that question. 00:16:18:03 - 00:16:20:03 I mean, if someone is drowning and they "ask you" 00:16:20:03 - 00:16:22:21 to throw them a life ring, if you don't answer 00:16:23:23 - 00:16:25:03 and they die, 00:16:25:25 - 00:16:27:28 you didn't just "not answer a question," you know what I mean? 00:16:28:16 - 00:16:32:19 They ignored the emails in which I asked about accessibility, 00:16:32:26 - 00:16:34:28 and they answered my other emails. 00:16:36:06 - 00:16:37:26 That's a lot. 00:16:37:26 - 00:16:39:14 That reflects 00:16:39:24 - 00:16:42:03 values, and it's hurtful and it's ableism. 00:16:42:26 - 00:16:45:14 And I will personally not renew my APC 00:16:45:14 - 00:16:47:22 membership later this year just as a matter of self-respect. 00:16:48:20 - 00:16:51:21 But I believe in professional chaplaincy, 00:16:52:07 - 00:16:55:08 and I hope that folks who are abled, that is non-disabled, 00:16:55:23 - 00:16:59:01 can work on accessibility within APC and ACPE 00:16:59:01 - 00:17:03:06 both, in terms of their websites, first of all, and their conferences 00:17:03:15 - 00:17:07:08 and their communications with disabled chaplains. 00:17:08:17 - 00:17:11:21 If you are abled and you care about justice, 00:17:13:00 - 00:17:14:18 you should speak up 00:17:14:28 - 00:17:18:00 because they will listen to you where, as you can see, 00:17:18:03 - 00:17:21:09 they will literally ignore us. 00:17:21:09 - 00:17:22:22 We need you. 00:17:25:13 - 00:17:27:20 So those are two stories. 00:17:28:03 - 00:17:28:28 Everybody's different. 00:17:28:28 - 00:17:29:24 Just remember, ableism 00:17:29:24 - 00:17:32:18 is exhausting, demoralizing, and way too familiar for all of us. 00:17:33:29 - 00:17:36:28 On finding that disability justice starting point, Cornel West 00:17:36:28 - 00:17:39:13 says, "Justice is what love looks like in public." 00:17:40:24 - 00:17:43:29 And "disability justice teaches us how to actually care for one another," 00:17:45:22 - 00:17:48:04 says Lydia X.D. Brown. 00:17:49:02 - 00:17:51:28 You're going to need to have the confidence in your own competence 00:17:52:15 - 00:17:55:08 in order to not follow models rooted in White, ableist 00:17:55:08 - 00:17:58:22 social norms that deny the realities of structural inequality 00:17:58:23 - 00:18:01:22 which can account for so much spiritual pain. 00:18:05:05 - 00:18:05:29 We need you. 00:18:05:29 - 00:18:08:18 That is my message of this part of the talk. 00:18:09:16 - 00:18:11:26 And this truly deserves an interactive session. 00:18:11:26 - 00:18:16:21 I'm sorry that is not possible, but I will wrap up my part of Part 3 here 00:18:16:21 - 00:18:20:09 and if the Live Q&A is working, let's try to connect there for your Thoughts? 00:18:20:09 - 00:18:22:21 Reactions? Comments? Questions?